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Post by ladona on Oct 29, 2011 1:29:02 GMT 1
I love the feel of that Chicago concert; it just has a good vibe to it. Her voice sounds so beautiful, and the audience is definitely into it. I wish there was a dvd of it. That's when Lauryn was in what I call her "super spiritual" mode  . I really like that Lauryn. I'm so anxious to hear what she's working on now. |
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Post by ladona on Oct 29, 2011 1:40:47 GMT 1
The lyrics to this song are simply amazing! |
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Post by Nutzz on Oct 29, 2011 8:04:40 GMT 1
I love the feel of that Chicago concert; it just has a good vibe to it. Her voice sounds so beautiful, and the audience is definitely into it. I wish there was a dvd of it. That's when Lauryn was in what I call her "super spiritual"; mode . I really like that Lauryn. I'm so anxious to hear what she's working on now. I can understand this feeling... But in my opinion that's what I precisely don't like that much.... She always speak in a specific way that reminds me evangelical christian speech. She has a vision which criticize this world, (that's not bad ) but her solution is to believe in god and be apart of a kind of other world... The world of God, Bible, etc... There's the bad, and the good, that's all. Well, there's a lot of others songs more "complicated" that I prefer. What I really notice (well, I have a feeling but maybe I'm wrong) and I appreciate in her comeback is that she refers more and more to Love like an universal feeling that we all have to tend to. It's not anymore Jesus or God explicitely . I know she's a believer (I must respect that) , but I prefer when I feel more concerned by the songs.... |
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Post by WhatGiveMeMyMoney on Oct 29, 2011 15:16:20 GMT 1
I actually understand what you are saying, but keep in mind, this is from 2004, I'm from Chicago, i was actually at this concert. but yea you as a person grow each day, your opinion changes, Ms. hill has done many videos where she said folks needed Jesus, I'm not a xtian nor religious, but this is her journey, she doesn't owe us anything, but she wanted to share, if u read the lyrics, this is what she was going through (at that time) many people turn to the sky when they are going through a heavy amount of bull on earth, it's just how it is.
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Post by Essence on Oct 29, 2011 17:48:24 GMT 1
I love the feel of that Chicago concert; it just has a good vibe to it. Her voice sounds so beautiful, and the audience is definitely into it. I wish there was a dvd of it. That's when Lauryn was in what I call her "super spiritual"; mode . I really like that Lauryn. I'm so anxious to hear what she's working on now. I can understand this feeling... But in my opinion that's what I precisely don't like that much.... She always speak in a specific way that reminds me evangelical christian speech. She has a vision which criticize this world, (that's not bad ) but her solution is to believe in god and be apart of a kind of other world... The world of God, Bible, etc... There's the bad, and the good, that's all. Well, there's a lot of others songs more "complicated" that I prefer. What I really notice (well, I have a feeling but maybe I'm wrong) and I appreciate in her comeback is that she refers more and more to Love like an universal feeling that we all have to tend to. It's not anymore Jesus or God explicitely . I know she's a believer (I must respect that) , but I prefer when I feel more concerned by the songs.... If there's anything I appreciate about Lauryn's "spirituality", it's that she balances it very well with her music. She never comes across as being too "preachy" to me, except for when she talks in-between the songs, like she did in Chicago. Her music is spiritual, but never too spiritual, or never in a way where she sounds like she is trying to convince you to share her beliefs, you know what I mean? And I agree with you about enjoying her music when it's less about being spiritual and more about being righteous. "Little Boys", "(Doo Wop) That Thing", "Lost Ones", "Freedom Time", "Everything Is Everything" - "that is Lauryn at her best, IMO, when her music has a positive message and is still groovable. Not too many artists know how to balance the two, which is why we hardly see it happen. |
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Post by Nutzz on Oct 30, 2011 14:24:08 GMT 1
I can understand this feeling... But in my opinion that's what I precisely don't like that much.... She always speak in a specific way that reminds me evangelical christian speech. She has a vision which criticize this world, (that's not bad ) but her solution is to believe in god and be apart of a kind of other world... The world of God, Bible, etc... There's the bad, and the good, that's all. Well, there's a lot of others songs more "complicated" that I prefer. What I really notice (well, I have a feeling but maybe I'm wrong) and I appreciate in her comeback is that she refers more and more to Love like an universal feeling that we all have to tend to. It's not anymore Jesus or God explicitely . I know she's a believer (I must respect that) , but I prefer when I feel more concerned by the songs.... If there's anything I appreciate about Lauryn's "spirituality", it's that she balances it very well with her music. She never comes across as being too "preachy" to me, except for when she talks in-between the songs, like she did in Chicago. Her music is spiritual, but never too spiritual, or never in a way where she sounds like she is trying to convince you to share her beliefs, you know what I mean? And I agree with you about enjoying her music when it's less about being spiritual and more about being righteous. "Little Boys", "(Doo Wop) That Thing", "Lost Ones", "Freedom Time", "Everything Is Everything" - "that is Lauryn at her best, IMO, when her music has a positive message and is still groovable. Not too many artists know how to balance the two, which is why we hardly see it happen. Well, even if I love her flow in this song, let's check some verses of "Freedom time". She criticizes the authorities, saying that they get the people confuse about what we have to do and think. How can dominant wisdom
Be recognized in a system
Of anti-christs and majority rules
...
The origin of man's heart is black
...
Babylon the great mystery
Mother of human history
System of social socercery
...
Where's there's no repentance there can be no remission
...
Search the chapters check the verses
Recapture the land remove the mark off our hands
This vision of humanity is very pessimistic. It's as if human were not capable of love because they're totally bad. And the only issue is "The Truth" (so there's only one Truth), the truth about the real love that comes from a non-human world so, probably, from God. The last verse refers clearly to the apocalypse chapter in Bible. As if the judgement era has already begun . Well, all of this confirms what I think about her christian vision. In fact, it should'nt disturb me but in reality, it does! I know well this vision because I had it for a long time and I was so full of culpability. I was so upset of myself .... And so convinced that Jesus was the only Truth and the others were wrong. I already loved her music when I was into spirituality, of course, but now that I changed, I can't agree with that anymore. But, I still love her voice, her flow, her music more than anyone else!!! Do you think her vision is really what she litteraly says or that she uses pictures from the Bible in order to illustrate something else? I never wanted to face this "conflict" between my favourite music and my ideology.... But when I saw the post, I thought it would have been great to have others points of views.... And that's nice to see other "agnostics" who love her music. |
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Post by pippip262 on Oct 30, 2011 14:59:28 GMT 1
If there's anything I appreciate about Lauryn's "spirituality", it's that she balances it very well with her music. She never comes across as being too "preachy" to me, except for when she talks in-between the songs, like she did in Chicago. Her music is spiritual, but never too spiritual, or never in a way where she sounds like she is trying to convince you to share her beliefs, you know what I mean? And I agree with you about enjoying her music when it's less about being spiritual and more about being righteous. "Little Boys", "(Doo Wop) That Thing", "Lost Ones", "Freedom Time", "Everything Is Everything" - "that is Lauryn at her best, IMO, when her music has a positive message and is still groovable. Not too many artists know how to balance the two, which is why we hardly see it happen. Well, even if I love her flow in this song, let's check some verses of "Freedom time". She criticizes the authorities, saying that they get the people confuse about what we have to do and think. How can dominant wisdom
Be recognized in a system
Of anti-christs and majority rules
...
The origin of man's heart is black
...
Babylon the great mystery
Mother of human history
System of social socercery
...
Where's there's no repentance there can be no remission
...
Search the chapters check the verses
Recapture the land remove the mark off our hands
This vision of humanity is very pessimistic. It's as if human were not capable of love because they're totally bad. And the only issue is "The Truth" (so there's only one Truth), the truth about the real love that comes from a non-human world so, probably, from God. The last verse refers clearly to the apocalypse chapter in Bible. As if the judgement era has already begun . Well, all of this confirms what I think about her christian vision. In fact, it should'nt disturb me but in reality, it does! I know well this vision because I had it for a long time and I was so full of culpability. I was so upset of myself .... And so convinced that Jesus was the only Truth and the others were wrong. I already loved her music when I was into spirituality, of course, but now that I changed, I can't agree with that anymore. But, I still love her voice, her flow, her music more than anyone else!!! Do you think her vision is really what she litteraly says or that she uses pictures from the Bible in order to illustrate something else? I never wanted to face this "conflict" between my favourite music and my ideology.... But when I saw the post, I thought it would have been great to have others points of views.... And that's nice to see other "agnostics" who love her music. I think that she is referring to the last days and I agree. I am a Christian and I do believe that you must believe in Jesus Christ to go to heaven. I was a little surprised that non-believers love Lauryn's music as much as believers. I guess that's the greatness about her. I also love that she's not preachy. So what exactly do you guys believe in? (if you don't mind me asking). |
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Post by Guest1234561 on Oct 30, 2011 23:25:50 GMT 1
LOL @ you have to believe in Jesus to get into heaven, sheesh that sucks for the slaves during the middle passage that weren't christian, guess Jesus couldn't rapture on down during those 265 years, but as i say that, i'm a ms. hill fan, so yes, you're correct we all love her music! |
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Post by WhatGiveMeMyMoney on Oct 30, 2011 23:33:16 GMT 1
I'm Agnostic, cuz I don't know!
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Post by Essence on Oct 30, 2011 23:36:39 GMT 1
If there's anything I appreciate about Lauryn's "spirituality", it's that she balances it very well with her music. She never comes across as being too "preachy" to me, except for when she talks in-between the songs, like she did in Chicago. Her music is spiritual, but never too spiritual, or never in a way where she sounds like she is trying to convince you to share her beliefs, you know what I mean? And I agree with you about enjoying her music when it's less about being spiritual and more about being righteous. "Little Boys", "(Doo Wop) That Thing", "Lost Ones", "Freedom Time", "Everything Is Everything" - "that is Lauryn at her best, IMO, when her music has a positive message and is still groovable. Not too many artists know how to balance the two, which is why we hardly see it happen. Well, even if I love her flow in this song, let's check some verses of "Freedom time". She criticizes the authorities, saying that they get the people confuse about what we have to do and think. How can dominant wisdom
Be recognized in a system
Of anti-christs and majority rules
...
The origin of man's heart is black
...
Babylon the great mystery
Mother of human history
System of social socercery
...
Where's there's no repentance there can be no remission
...
Search the chapters check the verses
Recapture the land remove the mark off our hands
This vision of humanity is very pessimistic. It's as if human were not capable of love because they're totally bad. And the only issue is "The Truth" (so there's only one Truth), the truth about the real love that comes from a non-human world so, probably, from God. The last verse refers clearly to the apocalypse chapter in Bible. As if the judgement era has already begun . Well, all of this confirms what I think about her christian vision. In fact, it should'nt disturb me but in reality, it does! I know well this vision because I had it for a long time and I was so full of culpability. I was so upset of myself .... And so convinced that Jesus was the only Truth and the others were wrong. I already loved her music when I was into spirituality, of course, but now that I changed, I can't agree with that anymore. But, I still love her voice, her flow, her music more than anyone else!!! Do you think her vision is really what she litteraly says or that she uses pictures from the Bible in order to illustrate something else? I never wanted to face this "conflict" between my favourite music and my ideology.... But when I saw the post, I thought it would have been great to have others points of views.... And that's nice to see other "agnostics" who love her music. I always felt that was a contradiction to the thesis of the Miseducation - "The answers....were in me...And I made up my mind, to define my own destiny." On the Miseducation, she encouraged her fans to stop crying for help searching outside of themselves, whereas in 'Freedom Time', 'The Passion', 'Peace Of Mind', it seemed like she promoted the opposite - seek the answers that can only be obtained in another world outside of the one we know of. In other words, mankind cannot possibly achieve happiness on his own endeveaours - he must find solace somewhere else, some unknown, onforseen place - and he can gain access to this place by simply believing in 'God'. On the Miseducation, she was encouraging individualism and self-determination, and on Unplugged, it sounded like she took a step back. Why the sudden, drastic change - Idk, but I always speculated that she was going through a rough period in her personal life when Unplugged was created, and whatever it was, evidently made her seclude from society and only entertain the bible (vis-a-vis Brother Anthony). I don't think Lauryn's "Christian vision" is pessimistic, but I also don't think it's realistic. Mankind has never been, and will not be in perfect synchronization through religious faith. You cannot convince the whole world to believe in 'God', or the 'Christian's' version of God, because that form of belief doesn't always work for everyone. Some people function better without religious restrictions or total devotion to 'God' in their life, and are inclined to take responsibility for their own destiny and accomplishments. Some people feel more empowered knowing how that strength and potential comes from within, which is more practical than seeking or waiting for it to come from elsewhere. If you want someone to make a meaningful change in their life, it is important that he/she recognizes their potential to change in the first place. This is true for people in all predicaments, from alcoholics, to crack addicts, to children struggling in school. I have never prayed a bad situation away. If something wasn't working in my favor, I'd just have to pull myself up by the bootstraps - no time waiting for God to make it right. I'm not suggesting that Lauryn's belief in God or the belief in God is ineffective, I just don't think it's ever applied to me. I believe there is a common principle that governs the universe and world we live in, and if you want to call that God, then so be it. But my personal faith in that is not always the determining factor in the outcome of my public relations. So I guess that's why I've never agreed with "Christian vision", but I can still appreciate the value in her lyricism and music. She knows how to push the outside of the envelope without compromising the connection to her audience. She didn't sing "Girls you know better...read the bible", or suggest that "Little Boys" turn to Church to avoid crime. I identify more with the politically-oriented Lauryn than the spiritual one. However, she seems slightly different to me these days than she did back in the mid 00s - when she was telling folks that all they needed was Jesus. I don't know if she still feels as strongly about that, but in her recent interviews, such as the one last year in D.C. for RTB, she sounded more practical than idealistic - as if she realized that spirituality is not the key to salvation, but only a proponent. |
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Post by WhatGiveMeMyMoney on Oct 31, 2011 0:43:31 GMT 1
Amen & Awomen to Essence!
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Post by pippip262 on Oct 31, 2011 2:40:36 GMT 1
LOL @ you have to believe in Jesus to get into heaven, sheesh that sucks for the slaves during the middle passage that weren't christian, guess Jesus couldn't rapture on down during those 265 years, but as i say that, i'm a ms. hill fan, so yes, you're correct we all love her music! Ok I don't mock anyone's beliefs and I'd appreciate if you didn't mock mine. I respect all religions (even if I don't agree with them). Thanks  |
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Post by pippip262 on Oct 31, 2011 2:47:53 GMT 1
Well, even if I love her flow in this song, let's check some verses of "Freedom time". She criticizes the authorities, saying that they get the people confuse about what we have to do and think. How can dominant wisdom
Be recognized in a system
Of anti-christs and majority rules
...
The origin of man's heart is black
...
Babylon the great mystery
Mother of human history
System of social socercery
...
Where's there's no repentance there can be no remission
...
Search the chapters check the verses
Recapture the land remove the mark off our hands
This vision of humanity is very pessimistic. It's as if human were not capable of love because they're totally bad. And the only issue is "The Truth" (so there's only one Truth), the truth about the real love that comes from a non-human world so, probably, from God. The last verse refers clearly to the apocalypse chapter in Bible. As if the judgement era has already begun . Well, all of this confirms what I think about her christian vision. In fact, it should'nt disturb me but in reality, it does! I know well this vision because I had it for a long time and I was so full of culpability. I was so upset of myself .... And so convinced that Jesus was the only Truth and the others were wrong. I already loved her music when I was into spirituality, of course, but now that I changed, I can't agree with that anymore. But, I still love her voice, her flow, her music more than anyone else!!! Do you think her vision is really what she litteraly says or that she uses pictures from the Bible in order to illustrate something else? I never wanted to face this "conflict" between my favourite music and my ideology.... But when I saw the post, I thought it would have been great to have others points of views.... And that's nice to see other "agnostics" who love her music. I always felt that was a contradiction to the thesis of the Miseducation - "The answers....were in me...And I made up my mind, to define my own destiny." On the Miseducation, she encouraged her fans to stop crying for help searching outside of themselves, whereas in 'Freedom Time', 'The Passion', 'Peace Of Mind', it seemed like she promoted the opposite - seek the answers that can only be obtained in another world outside of the one we know of. In other words, mankind cannot possibly achieve happiness on his own endeveaours - he must find solace somewhere else, some unknown, onforseen place - and he can gain access to this place by simply believing in 'God'. On the Miseducation, she was encouraging individualism and self-determination, and on Unplugged, it sounded like she took a step back. Why the sudden, drastic change - Idk, but I always speculated that she was going through a rough period in her personal life when Unplugged was created, and whatever it was, evidently made her seclude from society and only entertain the bible (vis-a-vis Brother Anthony). I don't think that it's contradictory at all, in my opinion. To believe in God is to believe in yourself. Her saying that people are searching outside of themselves could mean that they're searching through drugs, other people, money etc whereas believing in God is not searching outside of yourself because I am a reflection of GOD. The Miseducation is chalked full of religion especially in Forgive Them Father. I think it's just more apparent in Unplugged because it's so dressed down. |
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Post by ladona on Oct 31, 2011 6:14:49 GMT 1
@essence:
When Lauryn wrote, “but deep in my heart the answer it was in me, and I made up my mind to find my own destiny,” she was saying that she was not going to let others define who she was but that she, with the help of God, was going to determine her own course in life. So she was in a sense encouraging individualism and self-determination but only in the context of knowing God. You have to look at the lyrics before and after the line you referenced.
The lyrics before say:
“…Every time I try to be what someone else has thought of me, so caught up I wasn’t able to achieve…”
The lyrics after:
‘I hear so many cry for help, searching outside of themselves. Now I know His strength is within me.”
In other words, her belief in God allowed her to achieve happiness and solace in her journey to find her own way. As Since said, the songs in “Miseducation” are full of Christian/biblical references, some more subtle than others:
“Lost Ones”
“To Zion”
“Doo Wop”
“Superstar”
”Final Hour”
“I Used to Love Him”
"Forgive Them Father”
“Everything is Everything”
“Tell Him”
That's more than half of the songs on the album, so there isn’t a contradiction between “Miseducation” and “Unplugged.” Lauryn was always bold with her belief in God. In “Unplugged” she just got bolder with it. I don’t think she was trying to convince anyone to believe in God; she was just sharing her beliefs. I think she may have gotten a little over zealous with it at times, but that’s only a sign of someone who has discovered something new and wants to share it. And when I say new, I mean that she had a renewed belief in God's purpose for her life (music). I guess she figured if other artists could sing about their gods (sex, drugs, money, etc.) she could sing about her God.
However, because of the outright Christian message in “Unplugged,” I believe she lost some fans, but she also gained some. I also suspect that that may have been the reason why Columbia did not want to release her music. That’s why I can’t wait to hear what she’s working on now because she does seem to have found a balance between her beliefs and her artistry. I think that she still very much believes in God but doesn’t feel the need to talk about it as much.
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Post by ladona on Oct 31, 2011 7:06:13 GMT 1
@nutzz:
I think Lauryn lyrics are just like the Bible, both literal and symbolic. I don't know why her Christian vision disturbs you. Those are her beliefs, and she is not asking anyone to believe what she believes. It is the Christian's duty to share our beliefs with others, whether in word or deed. She just happens to have a global audience. Like I mentioned earlier, she may have gotten a little over zealous with it at times, so I can definitely see how that would turn some people off, but the bottom line is: that's who she is. We all know our strengths and weaknesses, and maybe she had to take it to the extreme in order to withstand the indulgences that come with being a celebrity. If her belief in God keeps her grounded and sane in a world where people worship you and will give you anything you want (and everything you don't need), then I say good for her.
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. I really like that Lauryn. I'm so anxious to hear what she's working on now.