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Post by PS on Aug 10, 2011 7:05:04 GMT 1
I think it's a challenge for fans to see the artist they admire as a real person sometimes, with real flaws and real issues. Also we as fans sometimes go overboard in defending Lauryn because she has been the subject of such unfair, juvenile, and putrid media scrutiny in recent years. Also sometimes we just don't want to admit the negative things about those we love/admire. We must be careful to remember that none of us knows her personally or who she really is.
I'm reminded of Nina Simone, who was the archetype of the artist that Lauryn has become. Nina was a person consumed with her concern about spirituality and righteousness, civil rights and women's rights. She fought for equality on a racial and cultural level, and she fought for women to be seen as iron-strong counterparts to men in a patriarchal society. She wrote and sang passionately songs of love, songs of freedom, songs of deliverance, and combined genres of music to create a sound that was distinctly her own. She was so concerned with the welfare, development, growth, rights, and spiritual state of her people that she was charged with a powerful urgency that pervaded her music and inspired her generation and generations to come. She was also bipolar, schizophrenic, depressed, bitter, and very very angry. Most people who worked with her said at once she could be a loving genius, or a vile b*tch. Moreover, most of Nina's mental issues were not known until later in her life or after her death, so she developed a reputation for being rude and mean without proper understanding of WHY she was that way being disseminated to the public who judged her.
I love Lauryn and think she is a monumental genius and quite possibly the most important figure in music of the past 20 years. She ranks, in my mind, alongside Sam Cooke, Aretha Franklin, Bob Marley, Bob Dylan, Stevie Wonder, John Lennon, and many others as a revolutionary force in music. However this is not the first time claims about her behavior being less than perfect have been made. People from her former bandmates, to her former friends, to artists who have worked with her, or simply people who have met her have made these claims. If everyone is saying the same thing about you, then there's a chance that it's true. As fans, I think it's important to view this with a bit of neutrality, versus blind defense of an artist just because of our love for them. It could be that much like Nina Simone, or Ludwig Beethoven, or Bob Dylan, that Lauryn is in fact a very tortured genius. It could be that she may in fact have issues that cause her to react in ways that may not necessarily align with the message of her music. Does this make her a bad person? No. Does it make her message any less powerful or relevant? No. But it's hard to deny that Lauryn has had a lot of anger and a lot of depression in recent years that may have caused her to respond a certain way.
I just think we as fans sometimes think we know an artist just because of their music or their public persona. We must remember none of us know this woman personally.
If she is in fact a rude person behind the scenes, it doesn't make her a bad person, nor does it invalidate her message of love, spirituality and hope. It simply means that she is human, and like all of us, she is imperfect, flawed, and capable of falling short of the standard of grace. None of us are perfect. Why should we then expect her to be?
That being said, the lawsuit does seem pretty wack. If she didn't pay him, then he has a right to sue her on those grounds. And honestly this isn't the first time musicians have claimed they were not paid by her.
The $16,500 that he's suing her for emotional distress though is a bunch of bull-plop. If she was a rude, abusive, b*tch, then he could easily have quit the tour and moved on. He is a very well known backup musician, so he could easily have gotten another job. I do feel that the other money he is asking for is just his way of trying to get back at her, and that is ridiculous and should be dismissed. I hardly thinks he caused him that much distress.
Also the timing is a bit weird. I can't imagine it taking THAT long for his lawsuit to get through. However, with Lauryn being in the news alot recently, he's probably trying to capitalize on that, which is also pretty pathetic.
She should pay him what he's owed, and the rest of it should be dismissed as foolishness in my opinion.
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Post by puma on Aug 10, 2011 8:59:03 GMT 1
I think it's a challenge for fans to see the artist they admire as a real person sometimes, with real flaws and real issues. Also we as fans sometimes go overboard in defending Lauryn because she has been the subject of such unfair, juvenile, and putrid media scrutiny in recent years. Also sometimes we just don't want to admit the negative things about those we love/admire. We must be careful to remember that none of us knows her personally or who she really is. I'm reminded of Nina Simone, who was the archetype of the artist that Lauryn has become. Nina was a person consumed with her concern about spirituality and righteousness, civil rights and women's rights. She fought for equality on a racial and cultural level, and she fought for women to be seen as iron-strong counterparts to men in a patriarchal society. She wrote and sang passionately songs of love, songs of freedom, songs of deliverance, and combined genres of music to create a sound that was distinctly her own. She was so concerned with the welfare, development, growth, rights, and spiritual state of her people that she was charged with a powerful urgency that pervaded her music and inspired her generation and generations to come. She was also bipolar, schizophrenic, depressed, bitter, and very very angry. Most people who worked with her said at once she could be a loving genius, or a vile b*tch. Moreover, most of Nina's mental issues were not known until later in her life or after her death, so she developed a reputation for being rude and mean without proper understanding of WHY she was that way being disseminated to the public who judged her. I love Lauryn and think she is a monumental genius and quite possibly the most important figure in music of the past 20 years. She ranks, in my mind, alongside Sam Cooke, Aretha Franklin, Bob Marley, Bob Dylan, Stevie Wonder, John Lennon, and many others as a revolutionary force in music. However this is not the first time claims about her behavior being less than perfect have been made. People from her former bandmates, to her former friends, to artists who have worked with her, or simply people who have met her have made these claims. If everyone is saying the same thing about you, then there's a chance that it's true. As fans, I think it's important to view this with a bit of neutrality, versus blind defense of an artist just because of our love for them. It could be that much like Nina Simone, or Ludwig Beethoven, or Bob Dylan, that Lauryn is in fact a very tortured genius. It could be that she may in fact have issues that cause her to react in ways that may not necessarily align with the message of her music. Does this make her a bad person? No. Does it make her message any less powerful or relevant? No. But it's hard to deny that Lauryn has had a lot of anger and a lot of depression in recent years that may have caused her to respond a certain way. I just think we as fans sometimes think we know an artist just because of their music or their public persona. We must remember none of us know this woman personally. If she is in fact a rude person behind the scenes, it doesn't make her a bad person, nor does it invalidate her message of love, spirituality and hope. It simply means that she is human, and like all of us, she is imperfect, flawed, and capable of falling short of the standard of grace. None of us are perfect. Why should we then expect her to be? That being said, the lawsuit does seem pretty wack. If she didn't pay him, then he has a right to sue her on those grounds. And honestly this isn't the first time musicians have claimed they were not paid by her. The $16,500 that he's suing her for emotional distress though is a bunch of bull-plop. If she was a rude, abusive, b*tch, then he could easily have quit the tour and moved on. He is a very well known backup musician, so he could easily have gotten another job. I do feel that the other money he is asking for is just his way of trying to get back at her, and that is ridiculous and should be dismissed. I hardly thinks he caused him that much distress. Also the timing is a bit weird. I can't imagine it taking THAT long for his lawsuit to get through. However, with Lauryn being in the news alot recently, he's probably trying to capitalize on that, which is also pretty pathetic. She should pay him what he's owed, and the rest of it should be dismissed as foolishness in my opinion. Well said. I agree 100%.
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Lawsuit
Aug 10, 2011 13:49:34 GMT 1
Post by pippip262 on Aug 10, 2011 13:49:34 GMT 1
@ps agree with you! ladona and everyone else what video is this that you guys are talking about where she rude to the band. I haven't seen/heard about anything like that.
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Lawsuit
Aug 10, 2011 14:23:39 GMT 1
Post by ladona on Aug 10, 2011 14:23:39 GMT 1
@ps agree with you! ladona and everyone else what video is this that you guys are talking about where she rude to the band. I haven't seen/heard about anything like that. I haven't seen any video(s). I was referencing OneHigherLove, who said there was a video of Lauryn talking down to her band members.
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citrus
Junior Member
Posts: 152
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Lawsuit
Aug 10, 2011 15:15:26 GMT 1
Post by citrus on Aug 10, 2011 15:15:26 GMT 1
We need to stop judging. None of us were there. We can only endlessly speculate.
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Lawsuit
Aug 10, 2011 18:38:38 GMT 1
Post by ladona on Aug 10, 2011 18:38:38 GMT 1
"I just think we as fans sometimes think we know an artist just because of their music or their public persona. We must remember none of us know this woman personally."
Which is why I am going to continue to defend her until there is concrete evidence that proves that a little, skinny, 5 feet and some change woman was such a MONSTER that she had grown men shaking in their boots. I'm not buying it. And it's not a blind defense. I would rather err on the side of giving her the benefit of the doubt than believing what people say, people who for the most part, are not willing to put their names to their accusations. So, I'm just going to stay in Lauryn's lane until all this pan out.
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Lawsuit
Aug 10, 2011 19:12:07 GMT 1
Post by pippip262 on Aug 10, 2011 19:12:07 GMT 1
"I just think we as fans sometimes think we know an artist just because of their music or their public persona. We must remember none of us know this woman personally." Which is why I am going to continue to defend her until there is concrete evidence that proves that a little, skinny, 5 feet and some change woman was such a MONSTER that she had grown men shaking in their boots. I'm not buying it. And it's not a blind defense. I would rather err on the side of giving her the benefit of the doubt than believing what people say, people who for the most part, are not willing to put their names to their accusations. So, I'm just going to stay in Lauryn's lane until all this pan out. lmao TOTALLY AGREE!!!!
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Lawsuit
Aug 10, 2011 19:49:16 GMT 1
Post by PS on Aug 10, 2011 19:49:16 GMT 1
"I just think we as fans sometimes think we know an artist just because of their music or their public persona. We must remember none of us know this woman personally." Which is why I am going to continue to defend her until there is concrete evidence that proves that a little, skinny, 5 feet and some change woman was such a MONSTER that she had grown men shaking in their boots. I'm not buying it. And it's not a blind defense. I would rather err on the side of giving her the benefit of the doubt than believing what people say, people who for the most part, are not willing to put their names to their accusations. So, I'm just going to stay in Lauryn's lane until all this pan out. What does her height or weight have to do with her personality? This is the same skinny, 5 feet tall woman who grabs a mic, rip the stage apart, and make crowd's go crazy when she raps. She is able to go toe to toe with every male MC she's ever been on a song or stage with. So then why can't she go toe to toe with them in rehearsals or discussions as well. It's somewhat contradictory to highlight how strong she is and say that the men must have been offended to take orders from a woman in the first page & second page, but then cite her small frame as a sign of her inability to be tough with men on this page. Despite her height and weight she COMMANDS respect and power. So I don't see how that defense works. It actually is a blind defense, only because you refuse to consider the alternative. But I understand your reasons, and respect your right to feel that way. As I said in my reply, I do feel him suing her for emotional distress is just a bunch of crap. He could have left. I do feel that the purpose of the lawsuit is to sue her for extra money that he does not deserve. He's also trying to damage her reputation and credibility, as well as capitalize on the fact that she's been in the media lately because her recent child. His motives are clearly questionable and negative, and the majority of his lawsuit is total crap. I don't however dismiss the possibility that she could have been tougher than necessary or rude at times. And I think she should pay him. The rest of it though should be dismissed.
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Lawsuit
Aug 10, 2011 21:36:02 GMT 1
Post by ladona on Aug 10, 2011 21:36:02 GMT 1
"I just think we as fans sometimes think we know an artist just because of their music or their public persona. We must remember none of us know this woman personally." Which is why I am going to continue to defend her until there is concrete evidence that proves that a little, skinny, 5 feet and some change woman was such a MONSTER that she had grown men shaking in their boots. I'm not buying it. And it's not a blind defense. I would rather err on the side of giving her the benefit of the doubt than believing what people say, people who for the most part, are not willing to put their names to their accusations. So, I'm just going to stay in Lauryn's lane until all this pan out. What does her height or weight have to do with her personality? This is the same skinny, 5 feet tall woman who grabs a mic, rip the stage apart, and make crowd's go crazy when she raps. She is able to go toe to toe with every male MC she's ever been on a song or stage with. So then why can't she go toe to toe with them in rehearsals or discussions as well. It's somewhat contradictory to highlight how strong she is and say that the men must have been offended to take orders from a woman in the first page & second page, but then cite her small frame as a sign of her inability to be tough with men on this page. Despite her height and weight she COMMANDS respect and power. So I don't see how that defense works. It actually is a blind defense, only because you refuse to consider the alternative. But I understand your reasons, and respect your right to feel that way. As I said in my reply, I do feel him suing her for emotional distress is just a bunch of crap. He could have left. I do feel that the purpose of the lawsuit is to sue her for extra money that he does not deserve. He's also trying to damage her reputation and credibility, as well as capitalize on the fact that she's been in the media lately because her recent child. His motives are clearly questionable and negative, and the majority of his lawsuit is total crap. I don't however dismiss the possibility that she could have been tougher than necessary or rude at times. And I think she should pay him. The rest of it though should be dismissed. You're right, Lauryn does have a BIG personality, and when she grabs the mic and tears up the stage; she does captivate her audience and command respect. However, you're talking about an audience being entertained as opposed to people supposedly being in a nightmarish, hostile environment. I mentioned her height because I was trying to create a visual of this little woman berating and intimidating all these big men in her band; and they were sitting there taking it because... Could they not just leave or speak to her about it? I'm not blindly defending Lauryn, and I have considered the alternatives. I just choose not to believe them at this point. But we do agree on some points, and that's cool
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Lawsuit
Aug 10, 2011 23:59:25 GMT 1
Post by PS on Aug 10, 2011 23:59:25 GMT 1
What does her height or weight have to do with her personality? This is the same skinny, 5 feet tall woman who grabs a mic, rip the stage apart, and make crowd's go crazy when she raps. She is able to go toe to toe with every male MC she's ever been on a song or stage with. So then why can't she go toe to toe with them in rehearsals or discussions as well. It's somewhat contradictory to highlight how strong she is and say that the men must have been offended to take orders from a woman in the first page & second page, but then cite her small frame as a sign of her inability to be tough with men on this page. Despite her height and weight she COMMANDS respect and power. So I don't see how that defense works. It actually is a blind defense, only because you refuse to consider the alternative. But I understand your reasons, and respect your right to feel that way. As I said in my reply, I do feel him suing her for emotional distress is just a bunch of crap. He could have left. I do feel that the purpose of the lawsuit is to sue her for extra money that he does not deserve. He's also trying to damage her reputation and credibility, as well as capitalize on the fact that she's been in the media lately because her recent child. His motives are clearly questionable and negative, and the majority of his lawsuit is total crap. I don't however dismiss the possibility that she could have been tougher than necessary or rude at times. And I think she should pay him. The rest of it though should be dismissed. You're right, Lauryn does have a BIG personality, and when she grabs the mic and tears up the stage; she does captivate her audience and command respect. However, you're talking about an audience being entertained as opposed to people supposedly being in a nightmarish, hostile environment. I mentioned her height because I was trying to create a visual of this little woman berating and intimidating all these big men in her band; and they were sitting there taking it because... Could they not just leave or speak to her about it? I'm not blindly defending Lauryn, and I have considered the alternatives. I just choose not to believe them at this point. But we do agree on some points, and that's cool The point I was trying to illustrate though is that if she has the power to captivate an audience with her energy and power, she equally has that power in a personal environment as well. If she can intimidate men on stage or on a song, why not in a conversation. I only consider it a possibility because this is not the first time we've heard statements like this mad. But you are right that they have the choice to leave. And I agree he should have done that the moment things got what he considers to be "nightmarish" if that was the case. The fact that he stuck around and sued her later about it is clearly odd. Clearly he's just trying to get back at her instead of just seeking what he deserves which is payment. We do agree on some things though. And I definitely think the guy has negative motives.
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Lawsuit
Aug 15, 2011 19:46:27 GMT 1
Post by Essence on Aug 15, 2011 19:46:27 GMT 1
You're right, Lauryn does have a BIG personality, and when she grabs the mic and tears up the stage; she does captivate her audience and command respect. However, you're talking about an audience being entertained as opposed to people supposedly being in a nightmarish, hostile environment. I mentioned her height because I was trying to create a visual of this little woman berating and intimidating all these big men in her band; and they were sitting there taking it because... Could they not just leave or speak to her about it? I'm not blindly defending Lauryn, and I have considered the alternatives. I just choose not to believe them at this point. But we do agree on some points, and that's cool The point I was trying to illustrate though is that if she has the power to captivate an audience with her energy and power, she equally has that power in a personal environment as well. If she can intimidate men on stage or on a song, why not in a conversation. I only consider it a possibility because this is not the first time we've heard statements like this mad. But you are right that they have the choice to leave. And I agree he should have done that the moment things got what he considers to be "nightmarish" if that was the case. The fact that he stuck around and sued her later about it is clearly odd. Clearly he's just trying to get back at her instead of just seeking what he deserves which is payment. We do agree on some things though. And I definitely think the guy has negative motives. Correct. And let's also not forget that the economy is in terrible shape [again]. This man is probably broke, and when you are broke, you start recalling and remembering things from the past - especially those that have to do with money. I remember a friend of mine who was low on money when we were on our way home, and she asked me "do you remember that time I lent you $6?", as a subtle way to get some cash from me. This man probably NEEDS the money, and is an opportunist.
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