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Post by puma on Aug 8, 2011 18:43:08 GMT 1
Some lawsuits take years to be filed. And now this has garnered public attention maybe he felt he could also speak about the actual working relationship? It certainly helps his case to be more plausible. And really. With as much of the 'we don't really know what went on' logic people on this board apply with Lauryn, we have to apply that with the people around her as well. Right now, there is definitely more evidence pointing towards Lauryn having mistreated her band. I remember an ex band member even coming on this board and speaking about the issue. Yes unfortunately sexism is still alive and well as this stage in time but I don't think the situation would be different if say, a male artist mistreated his band and fails to have compensated them. To me, the difference between the Lauryn we see now and the Lauryn back then is tremendous. The 2007 Lauryn did not interact with her fans, sign autographs, take photos with them. She barely smiled on stage and off (judging from the photos and videos) and you can tell her stage persona was a lot more stand offish. And unfortunately, it seems that the her then made some choices which had a negative effect on people around her. Which leads me to my point again. Despite her having a different outlook now, she has to take responsibility for her past actions. As we all do. So why not just settle this if she or her management do owe him money, and achieve an understanding when she has the chance so that both her and the other people can move on? I don't think that any of us are saying that this dude shouldn't get the money that's owed to him. The problem is that he's trying to sue for verbal abuse too. According to the original post, he's owed only "$3,590 for the gig," but he's suing for over $20,000. So, what's the rest of the money for, therapy? I think everybody knows that if he had worked for Kanye, Jay-Z, Sean Combs, or any other MALE in the business, he would not be suing for verbal abuse because men don't step to other men like that. Lauryn has worked around men for most of her career, don't you think she knows the garbage they take from each other but still maintain a professional working relationship. However, women are supposed to be nice and smile and not hurt people's feelings. Btw, Martin, next time I see a video of Kanye, Nas, Jay-Z, or any other MALE rapper; I'll let you know if they are smiling while on stage performing Re: Suing her for unpaid salary. I think that's fine to sue her and get the money that was owed to you. However, it's hard for me to imagine that she should be sued because the artist is not the one controlling the books. The promoter deals with the pay and the head manager controls the salaries for the rest of the band and staff. I'm curious to see how this plays out. Re: Suing her for verbal abuse. This is just a ploy to take money from her and to build up his case. Lauryn is not the first artist to "govern them harshly" as Onehigherlove stated. It would be foolish for anyone to sit and think that Lauryn didn't have a different demeanor from 2005 to today. Compare the 2005 Cartier performance to the 2011 Coachella performance. Her voice was much better in the 2005 video, but her presence, energy, and spirit was so lifted that many people ignored the fact that her voice was hoarse. They were just so happy to see her HAPPY on stage again. I have a friend who worked with her and he definitely told me that she's not to be played with. She is definitely tough and she keeps her distance emotionally from her employees. That's totally fine. You're paid to do the job and leave. However, touring is not an easy job and can be taxing on the body and spirit. To have someone berate you daily makes the experience almost unbearable. Trust me, no amount of money can make you stay and endure a hostile environment where you feel beaten down. I too have seen some tweets from her Moving Target band that suggests that the environment was like a "Slaveship". I am one of Lauryn's biggest fans and I want nothing but the best for her. However, I am also a human and I can understand that no one is perfect. There's evidence to back up their claims. I wonder if we can point out Mr. Gore on some videos from the tour he did with her. I'm curious to see which tour that was.
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Post by Onehigherlove on Aug 9, 2011 2:50:01 GMT 1
puma- Jay Gore. @sinceifoundanewlove- I didn't say that her Moving Target band hated her. Everything doesn't have to be black and white. They definitely wrote tweets that showed that they were annoyed with some of the conditions. And everyone who wrote back agreed. I'm sure Lauryn is a wonderful person but in her pursuit of making a new environment, she could've made it a hostile environment. None of us know the truth and all we can do is speculate. BUT there's evidence of her speaking very harshly to the band on stage in front of crowds. And they are just as important in making a concert as she is. So is the light technicians, that poor sound technician, stage hands, bookers, tour manager, bus driver, etc... They all deserve the same respect that she wants. So for anyone to suggest that just because they're getting paid they should take any kind of treatment is just plain wrong. And that goes for MALE or FEMALE.
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Post by Onehigherlove on Aug 9, 2011 2:58:32 GMT 1
20 sec he's on the right hand side of the screen
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Post by pippip262 on Aug 9, 2011 4:23:17 GMT 1
puma- Jay Gore. @sinceifoundanewlove- I didn't say that her Moving Target band hated her. Everything doesn't have to be black and white. They definitely wrote tweets that showed that they were annoyed with some of the conditions. And everyone who wrote back agreed. I'm sure Lauryn is a wonderful person but in her pursuit of making a new environment, she could've made it a hostile environment. None of us know the truth and all we can do is speculate. BUT there's evidence of her speaking very harshly to the band on stage in front of crowds. And they are just as important in making a concert as she is. So is the light technicians, that poor sound technician, stage hands, bookers, tour manager, bus driver, etc... They all deserve the same respect that she wants. So for anyone to suggest that just because they're getting paid they should take any kind of treatment is just plain wrong. And that goes for MALE or FEMALE. I'm not saying you are. I'm simply saying no one is looking at the whole picture. Lauryn does have a nice side or else the band wouldn't go out with her etc. Plus I saw tweets from one of the bgv's when Lauryn announced her pregnancy congratulating her and genuinely being happy for her and basically saying the ones who love you have your back. Same with others. You left that part out and I don't think that's fair to Lauryn, so I added the good stuff that I see as well.
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micmic1
New Member
the real you is so much easier than the fake somebody else "Lauryn Hill"
Posts: 32
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Post by micmic1 on Aug 9, 2011 10:32:31 GMT 1
fairweathers....I tell ya.....SinceIfound you are so right.
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Post by pippip262 on Aug 9, 2011 12:14:13 GMT 1
fairweathers....I tell ya.....SinceIfound you are so right. thanks!
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Post by Onehigherlove on Aug 9, 2011 22:21:47 GMT 1
puma- Jay Gore. @sinceifoundanewlove- I didn't say that her Moving Target band hated her. Everything doesn't have to be black and white. They definitely wrote tweets that showed that they were annoyed with some of the conditions. And everyone who wrote back agreed. I'm sure Lauryn is a wonderful person but in her pursuit of making a new environment, she could've made it a hostile environment. None of us know the truth and all we can do is speculate. BUT there's evidence of her speaking very harshly to the band on stage in front of crowds. And they are just as important in making a concert as she is. So is the light technicians, that poor sound technician, stage hands, bookers, tour manager, bus driver, etc... They all deserve the same respect that she wants. So for anyone to suggest that just because they're getting paid they should take any kind of treatment is just plain wrong. And that goes for MALE or FEMALE. I'm not saying you are. I'm simply saying no one is looking at the whole picture. Lauryn does have a nice side or else the band wouldn't go out with her etc. Plus I saw tweets from one of the bgv's when Lauryn announced her pregnancy congratulating her and genuinely being happy for her and basically saying the ones who love you have your back. Same with others. You left that part out and I don't think that's fair to Lauryn, so I added the good stuff that I see as well. I think that the majority of her TRUE fans always look to the bigger picture with Lauryn. When we see her joking and having fun on stage, we're happy to see that part of her. But no one wants to acknowledge that other side of her. And like I said before, no one said that the band hates her. Everything doesn't have to be black and white. The band can be annoyed that she's harsh with them and can appreciate when she has fun with them as well. It seems like in pursuit of being a STAN, you're taking comments way overboard. I'm just pointing out that there's possible validity to claims from multiple musicians that she's tough to work with. THAT'S ALL. It doesn't make me a fair-weathered fan, it makes me a human being able to see different possible sides of a situation. ( micmic1-Bless your dear heart). I, for one, am a person who fiercely defends her name against anyone, but I am completely able to listen to other people's concerns and not disregard them as HATERS. Especially when there's video of her talking down to band members. Once again, I'm not saying that her last band HATED HER or DISLIKED HER. I'm saying that judging from their tweets among the band, they have been annoyed with certain moments during their tour which gives validity to Mr. Gore's claim. Which means that he has a case in court.
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Post by pippip262 on Aug 9, 2011 22:39:09 GMT 1
I'm not saying you are. I'm simply saying no one is looking at the whole picture. Lauryn does have a nice side or else the band wouldn't go out with her etc. Plus I saw tweets from one of the bgv's when Lauryn announced her pregnancy congratulating her and genuinely being happy for her and basically saying the ones who love you have your back. Same with others. You left that part out and I don't think that's fair to Lauryn, so I added the good stuff that I see as well. I think that the majority of her TRUE fans always look to the bigger picture with Lauryn. When we see her joking and having fun on stage, we're happy to see that part of her. But no one wants to acknowledge that other side of her. And like I said before, no one said that the band hates her. Everything doesn't have to be black and white. The band can be annoyed that she's harsh with them and can appreciate when she has fun with them as well. It seems like in pursuit of being a STAN, you're taking comments way overboard. I'm just pointing out that there's possible validity to claims from multiple musicians that she's tough to work with. THAT'S ALL. It doesn't make me a fair-weathered fan, it makes me a human being able to see different possible sides of a situation. ( micmic1-Bless your dear heart). I, for one, am a person who fiercely defends her name against anyone, but I am completely able to listen to other people's concerns and not disregard them as HATERS. Especially when there's video of her talking down to band members. Once again, I'm not saying that her last band HATED HER or DISLIKED HER. I'm saying that judging from their tweets among the band, they have been annoyed with certain moments during their tour which gives validity to Mr. Gore's claim. Which means that he has a case in court. Don't assume you know me and what my comments mean. I'm not being rude to you (at least not intentionally) so don't be rude to me. and I'm not in pursuit of being a stan thank you very much like I said I just added the good stuff. And as a TRUE fan I do look at the bigger picture and again I already said it one of my earlier posts that Lauryn may have been rude to him (what human being isn't rude at one time or another?) My only thing is who brings it up FOUR YEARS LATER?!?! I've had a horrible boss but you won't see me suing her four years later. It's over wtf cares? Why hasn't this guy moved on in his life? I would really like to know who he's playing for now. And the big picture here is Lauryn has her good days and her bad days, you elaborated on the bad so I evened it out by doing the good. While you're saying you can see that she may have been horrible to the band or whatever bc of what the new band tweets I'm just saying well she may not have been as horrible as this dude is trying to make her out to be by other tweets by the new band. Did I say that you said the band hated her? NO. You took it that way. My posts are not meant to snap at you, only to show where I stand on the subject at hand and if I see something that I don't think is fair to Lauryn and it's only showing one side of course I'm going to post the good side, she deserves that. Don't take it so personal
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Post by puma on Aug 9, 2011 23:00:59 GMT 1
Oh boy! Lemme chime in here. I can see both of your points. I think that @onehigherlove was simply stating that no matter how her fans may feel, the guy has a case in court. And I think that @sinceifoundanewlove was just expressing her disdain for the guy for bringing this up 4 years later.
@since...I think @one was referencing the comment made by micmic about fairweathered fans. I think ONE even directed it to mic in the parentheses right there.
I agree with both of you. Looking back at videos there was definitely a dark and standoffish feel to her in 2007. She didn't smile or even really interact with the audience. I even remember her calling out this woman in the audience for covering her ears because the music was loud on that bootleg audio in Europe. I found it hysterical, but people could take it as aggression. Look at her demeanor in Coachella. It was like night and day! Something awoke in her and she was finally enjoying her time on stage. You can see God working through her. It almost made me cry at the end of the concert because my heart was so full from seeing her so happy. I just hope that these little tests and trials continue to make her stronger and stand up to the bullshit.
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micmic1
New Member
the real you is so much easier than the fake somebody else "Lauryn Hill"
Posts: 32
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Post by micmic1 on Aug 10, 2011 3:22:29 GMT 1
Actually I wasn' talking about fairweathered fans within this post. I was saying in general. Fans that are there while the lights are flashing but disappear after the hype is gone. If it was taken as an insult then that was not my intent. ; )
I just don't know how much I trust the lawsuit coming 4 years later. Trust me, if my boss stiffed me out of some 3,000 odd dollars you can best believe I WILL NOT be waiting for 4 years to sue. Why not sue a month, or two later? As a businessman myself, I send out invoices for 30 and 60 day late notices. But after 90 days you can best believe I am going to call up my attorney.
When I am on the job performing a job, I could care less that my supervisor is harsh or disrespectful. File a claim. Report it. In his case find another gig. Request your money for work performed in a timely manner and just keep it moving. Just saying.
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Post by pippip262 on Aug 10, 2011 3:37:46 GMT 1
Actually I wasn' talking about fairweathered fans within this post. I was saying in general. Fans that are there while the lights are flashing but disappear after the hype is gone. If it was taken as an insult then that was not my intent. ; ) I just don't know how much I trust the lawsuit coming 4 years later. Trust me, if my boss stiffed me out of some 3,000 odd dollars you can best believe I WILL NOT be waiting for 4 years to sue. Why not sue a month, or two later? As a businessman myself, I send out invoices for 30 and 60 day late notices. But after 90 days you can best believe I am going to call up my attorney. When I am on the job performing a job, I could care less that my supervisor is harsh or disrespectful. File a claim. Report it. In his case find another gig. Request your money for work performed in a timely manner and just keep it moving. Just saying. AGREE 100%
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Post by Martin00 on Aug 10, 2011 4:18:04 GMT 1
Actually I wasn' talking about fairweathered fans within this post. I was saying in general. Fans that are there while the lights are flashing but disappear after the hype is gone. If it was taken as an insult then that was not my intent. ; ) I just don't know how much I trust the lawsuit coming 4 years later. Trust me, if my boss stiffed me out of some 3,000 odd dollars you can best believe I WILL NOT be waiting for 4 years to sue. Why not sue a month, or two later? As a businessman myself, I send out invoices for 30 and 60 day late notices. But after 90 days you can best believe I am going to call up my attorney. When I am on the job performing a job, I could care less that my supervisor is harsh or disrespectful. File a claim. Report it. In his case find another gig. Request your money for work performed in a timely manner and just keep it moving. Just saying. Like I said before, some lawsuits take YEARS to be filed but everybody seems to be overlooking this fact and questioning his motives just because the tour happened four years ago.
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Post by pippip262 on Aug 10, 2011 4:36:08 GMT 1
Actually I wasn' talking about fairweathered fans within this post. I was saying in general. Fans that are there while the lights are flashing but disappear after the hype is gone. If it was taken as an insult then that was not my intent. ; ) I just don't know how much I trust the lawsuit coming 4 years later. Trust me, if my boss stiffed me out of some 3,000 odd dollars you can best believe I WILL NOT be waiting for 4 years to sue. Why not sue a month, or two later? As a businessman myself, I send out invoices for 30 and 60 day late notices. But after 90 days you can best believe I am going to call up my attorney. When I am on the job performing a job, I could care less that my supervisor is harsh or disrespectful. File a claim. Report it. In his case find another gig. Request your money for work performed in a timely manner and just keep it moving. Just saying. Like I said before, some lawsuits take YEARS to be filed but everybody seems to be overlooking this fact and questioning his motives just because the tour happened four years ago. ummm it also has to do with the fact that he's filing for emotional abuse $20,000?!?!?! come on now. That doesn't sound a little suspect?
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Post by Martin00 on Aug 10, 2011 4:46:49 GMT 1
Like I said before, some lawsuits take YEARS to be filed but everybody seems to be overlooking this fact and questioning his motives just because the tour happened four years ago. ummm it also has to do with the fact that he's filing for emotional abuse $20,000?!?!?! come on now. That doesn't sound a little suspect? That does sound suspect but i was speaking specifically on the point of everyone questioning him suing four years later instead of earlier.
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Post by ladona on Aug 10, 2011 5:22:58 GMT 1
First of all, I'm not sure if a few isolated tweets or a single video is evidence of constant (which is the word that was used) abuse. Even if Gore were to get a few musicians to testify on his behalf, he still would have to prove how he was damaged emotionally and psychologically. I believe he knows that he doesn't have a winnable case, so I'm thinking that his sole purpose for claiming verbal abuse is to hurt Lauryn professionally, to make it difficult for her to employ other musicians and back-up singers. Secondly, I have experience with both being a so-called "b*tch boss" as well as working for a so-called "b*tch boss" so I know that things are not always what they seem from the outside looking in. My boss and I are genuinely kind and personable women (lol, y'all are going to have to take my word for this ), but unfortunately, the average person tends to mistake kindness for weakness and will try and half-*ss their responsibilities and do less as possible. We've had to call people out in front of other people, not because we were trying to embarrass anyone, but because there's not always time to have private meetings with every single employee. Additionally, some people are just overly sensitive, take offense easily, and don't take correction too kindly. That's why I'm a little suspect about these claims of Lauryn berating and talking down to people. Maybe she was just taking care of business. Everything is not going to be done nicely to appease everyone's sensibilities. Finally, It's going to take more than a few tweets and some other subjective evidence to convince me that Lauryn has CONSTANTLY verbally abused anyone. And for the people who were sending out tweets and talking behind her back to the whole world, I wonder if they were ever man or woman enough to go to her and voice their concerns. She seems like a reasonable person who will listen.
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