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Post by fugees-online on Feb 3, 2007 17:04:46 GMT 1
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ballagrl23
Junior Member
Everyday's another chance, to get it right this time...
Posts: 163
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Post by ballagrl23 on Feb 3, 2007 17:14:13 GMT 1
OOooh that was interesting, definitely wanna see more.. Thank f-o
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Post by Big-D on Feb 4, 2007 1:08:16 GMT 1
thanks,I'll check it out
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Post by fugees-online on Feb 4, 2007 1:21:36 GMT 1
by Philo
Just saw the show:
1. It was a meager 10 minutes and didn't tell us anything we didn't already know.
2. It featured pictures we've all seen a million times, and some video from Cartier, but not her singing just like a montage.
3. The part of the interview where Pras is all in a fire about her being called Ms. Hill is not in the final broadcast and it looks like they removed that, but even the part included still shows Pras looking/speaking quite furiously about her. He says
"She's in a bubble!! she think's the whole world's out to get her. You're not Bin Laden, you're not the president. She doesn't know People just want to feel good. They want to hear you sing."
and
"I dont know if it's spiritually or emotionally, but something about her is not balanced."
4. The producers who sued her were inteviewed heavily (Vada Noble, Johari, Tejumold Newtone, Rashaan Pughs). They say they worked with her heavily. Also included are RARE home videos of them in the studio with her recording/writing Miseducation and it does look like they were with her ever step off the way. They say they sued her because she stiffed them of credit. They also say that when she came to the courtroom she brough a HUGE bible "that looked like a thesaurus with four other books. Like the book that Moses carried" and she would slam it down on the desk each day. They say when the judge asked who wrote the songs she said "God did".
5. THEY MENTION OUR PETITION!!!! But nobody actually speaks about it. Rather, it flashed in text at the end.
Basically that's it. Nothing ya'll havent seen before. Only thing you haven't seen is the short interview with Pras and the home video of the guys in the studio with her.
Pras has a point. He looks for the first time very angry. And I think he may be spent with Lauryn and Wyclef. The whole problem of the group seems focused around Lauryn and Wyclef. Lauryn's ego-mania, sensitivity, spirituality, living in a bubble, and strange perception and Wyclef's obvious dog-like nature in using them two to get famous and money and not seeming to care.Pras seems to be the only down to earth person and judging from the ire and fed-uppedness he displayed in the interview, I really think he's spent with them.
They mention nothing about the Fugees reunion but some lady does say that the Fugees could reunite at any time and if they were seriuos would sell hugely because the talent is still there.
They talk about Lauryn's solo album but the only thing they mention is it's been years in the making and costed upwards of 2 million dollars....same thing Rolling Stone said years ago.
I'm with Pras though. Clef needs to stop acting like a dog. Lauryn NEEDS NEEDS NEEDS to get out of that bubble she's in and find REAL truth, not that junk in that large bible she carryin around lol.
And yea they did make THAT SAME STUPID MISTAKE of quoting her:
"Lauryn broke down into tears and said:
"I'm crazy and deranged. I'm emotionally unstable. I'm not a performer"
Again another example of the media taking her words and taking the emotion/point out and mixing them into what they wanted it to be.
Basically a wasted ten minutes. Only thing relevant was Pras's ire and the revelation by the musicians who worked with her on Miseducation that they weer so heaviy involved and finally a video proof of their full involvement.
posted by philosopherselah, 2/3/2007, 8:26 pm
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Post by Guest21 on Feb 4, 2007 2:09:15 GMT 1
The producers did not say what their contribution to the album was, but that she was taking all the credit. Thus the suit. The Newton brothers were somewhat dignified in their responses it was the other two that were talking mess. The video they showed did not show anything to indicate what anyones involvement on the album was, other than the fact that they were in the studio.
Ms. Hill is moving on with her life it is these individuals (Pras included) who are trying to hold on to her to further their career. She does even perform the songs from MisEd using the same arrangements anymor. She takes her words and layes them over whatever groove she is feeling at the time.
Pras wasn't saying sh*t when he thought he had a chance to pad his pockets.
Oh yeah, the man that did the Trace interview and the other music critic were very complimentary and understand of Ms Hill.
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Post by Philo on Feb 4, 2007 2:25:07 GMT 1
The producers did not say what their contribution to the album was, but that she was taking all the credit. Thus the suit. The Newton brothers were somewhat dignified in their responses it was the other two that were talking mess. The video they showed did not show anything to indicate what anyones involvement on the album was, other than the fact that they were in the studio. Actually the video is quite telling. They showed SEVERAL clips from various videos because Lauryn had on different clothes. And on EACH video they were all over the place. And obviously New Ark entertainment (those four men collectively) had alot of influence in Lauryn's music because if you listen to Unplugged and subsequent pieces she barely plays four chords per song. Those men weren't lying. Lauryn took all the credit because at the time she was uneducated as to how to give proper credit and that just because you bond with someone you can't let their credit elude them. Up until Miseducation Lauryn was heavily uneducated in studio procedure, legal etiquette because Wyclef had handled much of it. And the Newton brothers were nuetral because they had subsequently spoken with Lauryn. Because Lauryn mentioned Johari in the Trace magazine saying she "had given some people less credit than they deserved, like Johari". Grooves that her BAND creates, not her. Just like the case with New Ark. And I dont think Lauryn is moving on with her life. After all it was HER who contacted Wyclef and Pras about reuniting. If you listen to Dave Chappelle credits you see they approached her, and she said she wanted to talk to Clef and Pras. Clef himself also credited her as calling him and saying "we were really saying something back then". Lauryn is the one who wanted to reunite, as did Clef. Pras was the one who said he WASN'T feeling the reunion at first, and only did so subsequently. I am amazed at how you would hold Lauryn faultless and claim Pras needs to move on with his life. Exactly. He's a businessman. He had the oppurtunity to make millions of dollars if he kissed Lauryn's butt and he did exactly that. he's known her since she was 16. If anyone has the right to talk mess about her it's him. Not everyone is obsessed with Lauryn and willing to credit her every move as a righteous and pure unfallible thing. Vada Nobles, Rashaan, Clef, Pras say she's wrong. Rohan isn't with her. Come on now. Read between the lines. "Could it be that you had me as an idol, worshipped above measure" |
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Post by Guest21 on Feb 4, 2007 3:01:27 GMT 1
What the Hell, I know I should not do this, but here we go. Philo, you claim to be this great musician. We all know that Lauryn had various musician etc. working with her in the studio. John Legend I believe is one of them. Yes, Lauryn herself has seen said that some people should have gotten more credit others not as much. I will not try to sit here and argue who did what in the recording session. Lauryn is not the first or last person to be sued. I know that things get a fuzzy in a recording session about who did what. I think the latest example of this is Beyonce disqualification from the Oscar race. Yes, Vada Noble did say Ms Hill(God) wrote the songs so I don't think that is in dispute. I think maybe the mixing and some of the arrangements and drum programming is what is in dispute.
I measure greatness by based on her sitting her ass down with a guitar all by her lonesome and making the most beautiful music I've ever heard. I have never heard any of these individuals create anything that comes close to the Mis ED material on their own. I take that as a strong indication that Miss Hill is the key ingredient thats missing. As Jay-Z said in his rendition of Ms Hill's "Lost Ones" make another HOVA. I would like to see and hear the next Mis Ed or Ms Hill for that matter. She is still doing her thing with or without them. I have yet to do a google search on any of these individual and her name not be mentioned.
Pras is just like Mary Wilson disposable.
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Post by Philo on Feb 4, 2007 3:55:23 GMT 1
What the Hell, I know I should not do this, but here we go. Philo, you claim to be this great musician. We all know that Lauryn had various musician etc. working with her in the studio. John Legend I believe is one of them. Yes, Lauryn herself has seen said that some people should have gotten more credit others not as much. I will not try to sit here and argue who did what in the recording session. Lauryn is not the first or last person to be sued. I know that things get a fuzzy in a recording session about who did what. I think the latest example of this is Beyonce disqualification from the Oscar race. Yes, Vada Noble did say Ms Hill(God) wrote the songs so I don't think that is in dispute. I think maybe the mixing and some of the arrangements and drum programming is what is in dispute. I measure greatness by based on her sitting her ass down with a guitar all by her lonesome and making the most beautiful music I've ever heard. I have never heard any of these individuals create anything that comes close to the Mis ED material on their own. I take that as a strong indication that Miss Hill is the key ingredient thats missing. As Jay-Z said in his rendition of Ms Hill's "Lost Ones" make another HOVA. I would like to see and hear the next Mis Ed or Ms Hill for that matter. She is still doing her thing with or without them. I have yet to do a google search on any of these individual and her name not be mentioned. Pras is just like Mary Wilson disposable. What is this idol pedastol you have her on. Your view of her seems borderline obsessed. You give her so much credit that you relegate Jay-Z's individual composition to "rendition". Jay-Z didn't make a "rendition' of Lost Ones. His work bears the same name. Lauryn doesn't own the copyright on the words "Lost Ones". His Lost One and her Lost One are nothing alike. Her is a statement of independence, a snap at Wyclef, where she clearly says "you win some, but you just lost one" indicating herself. Jay-Z is talking about people he lost in his life. They are on two different sides of the dichotomic expression of I/You. Nothing alike. Just the fact that you call her Ms. Hill and even quote her belief that God wrote the songs as "Ms Hill (God)" when you just saw her say that on the episode, is indicative of your idolatrous view of her. You have already digested her opinion, perception, and reality as the sole opinion, perception, and reality, and therefore wont hear anything that contradicts the comfortable psuedo-intellectual bubble she has put herself and you, her fans, in. No one is saying that Pras or Clef are BETTER musicians that Lauryn. I believe that goes without saying. I'm saying they're sane. And in this case, they are the ones who's right. You CANNOT speak with such jurisdiction about Lauryn Hill's condition. You only know her from her songs and what SHE tells you in interviews. Pras himself, who has toured with her, slept in the same room with her, travelled with her, loved her, been her friend, shared her laughs, held her hand, helped her up, etc., is saying that she is unbalanced, egotistical, and not-right, and you would contradict his EXPERT opinion based on your inadequate opinion of her based on a perception you didn't gain first hand. But his first hand appraisal of Lauryn is immediately dismissed. I don't understand that kind of dedication. There is a such thing as a blind loyalty. That can be dangerous, especially if the leader and commander of that blind loyalty is header over a cliff themselves. Pras has dropped two CD's since Ghetto Superstar. Clef has dropped more than four. These two are CLEARLY interested in creating, and composing. Clearly the reason for the failure of the Fugees is Lauryn Hill, just as she is the reason for her own failures. Vada Nobles also said, "Lauryn can't blame me, Clef, Pras, or anyone. Lauryn has to blame Lauryn. She is responsible for her own choices and actions". Pras himself said, "Call her Ms. Hill?? You're not the president, you're dont have the cure for AIDS, you're not solving the Middle East crisis. You're just a singer, songwriter, and performer". I agree completely. This idol-worship of Lauryn Hill has to end if you are ever to get some clarity into her problem. As I said earlier, Clef, Pras, New Ark, Rohan all say she's wrong. Why are you continuing to say she's right. Doesn't make sense. If anybody deserves this obsession, it's the God which speaks through her, not Lauryn herself. |
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Post by Philo on Feb 4, 2007 4:09:18 GMT 1
...and let me also add that perhaps we shouldn't even discuss this because it is obvious that we of two very different minds on the matter. Oft times I engage in debates because I am of the belief that two opposing viewpoints should be able to civily debate and present pros/cons/opposing viewpoints until either a victory, concession, or dichotomy is achieved thereby fully expressing each person's view. Intellectuals have historically debated in councils, etc. HOWEVER, generally my nature to debate intellectually is misconceived as some ploy to be argumentative, and it is not my desire to arouse argument.
That said, perhaps we should just not even discuss this and let is be that we have stated our various opinions and leave it there.
The episode will speak for itself and be interpreted however the person watching it perceives it.
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Post by Guest21 on Feb 4, 2007 4:31:58 GMT 1
I had written you a long response, but I hit the wrong button an lost it; therefore, I will keep this one short; because, I am too lazy to go back and read what you wrote.
I don't idol worship her, but I do love her music and think she is one of a kind. I don't feel the need to analyze her or comment on her personal relationships; because, I think that would say more about me and my state of mind than hers. I have no way of knowing what goes on in her personal life. I do know at the time she was involved with these people she was very young. I wish she could have had someone to really look out for her personal interest and protect her. She seems to be intelligent and worldly, but she was just so young and had not had the experiences to prepare her for what she encountered. I don't pass judgement on the decisions she made back then or now. I have to navigate this life myself and just hope I am making the right decisions every day.
On calling her Ms Hill, I have very strong feels about this. I have no problem calling her Ms Hill, that is her name. I think if people can call some of these individuals by some of these foolish names they come up with. They should have no problem calling her Ms Hill, but wait a minute thet would require a certain amount of respect associated with that. There my freind is the problem. There used to be a time when all we had as Black people was that small amount of dignity to be called Mr or Ms. I think I read were Maya Angelou refers to all people she comes in contact with as Mr and Ms. I really didn't like Mr. Pras (is that his given name?)trying to minimize her by saying she is just a singer, writer, and performer. Mr Pras she is so much more. Ms Hill will be remembered long after she has left this world; because, she changed the culture for Black women and men. You have never seen so many nappy sisters until after she hit the scene and the pride she made you feel watching her. I don't think anyone of this generation has that IT factor like her. We haven't even gotten to the lyrics. I willl stop here.
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Post by Philo on Feb 4, 2007 5:04:19 GMT 1
I had written you a long response, but I hit the wrong button an lost it; therefore, I will keep this one short; because, I am too lazy to go back and read what you wrote. I don't idol worship her, but I do love her music and think she is one of a kind. Perhaps. But you don't admit her flaws. And when Pras who has known her for years to the point of even sleeping in the same room as her and eating at the same table made statements about her, you dismissed him. Do you perceive that to be a right action?? Do you perceive you know more about Lauryn than Pras who has known her since 1989 back when she was a shy girl who only had singing going for her. This is NOT why she wants to be called Ms. Hill. And therein lies the major problem with everyone she encounters. It's not about black dignity. It's about egotism of the highest sort. She doesn't demand to be called Ms. Hill as I would be Mr. Craft, or you would be Mr. (insert name here), like as in a legal/public situation. Her Ms. Hill is an egotistical demand, citing that NOONE is to call her Lauryn under any circumstances. An egotistical demand for the cutting off of personification because she fears closeness, just like Pras said. Mr. Michel (Prazkarel Michel) And you should really research Pras more and let Boogie go for a second. Pras attended Yale University on the merit of his mathematical abilities. Pras was the person who PAID for their first studio session. Pras discovered Lauryn. Pras produced and handled business for the Fugees in their early days. He may not be as talented musically, but Pras is a stand up gentleman, and an unsung hero of the group who is so blindingly overwhelmed by Lauryn and Clef that people disrespect his immeasurable contributions. No. Lauryn IS a singer, a writer, and a performer. The only thing that makes her special is the Divine spirit that speakers THROUGH her music, words, etc. Lauryn herself is nothing but a lump of clay like all of us. We should celebrate the Divine which channels throuhg her, not her. Maybe not. As it is, the only people who remember her well are people who grew up in the 90's and listened to her music. So far she's all but forgotten by all but our generation. These young people coming up aren't playing her. And older people (above 30) only really like her for Killing Me Softly and a few other "jams". Reason being because she hasn't recorded anything in years. And this is a world of equilibrium. Two classic records is not enough to equte to legendary status. Barbra Streisand has 60 plus albums. Stevie, Aretha. The Beatles, U2, etc. They all have FAR MORE than TWO classic albums. This is what equates to legendary status. And she didn't change the culture for black men and women. She simple reintroduced the dynamic established by Malcolm X, Bob Marley, the Panthers, and other activists far before her. You never seen so many nappy heads when she came on the scene. Where were you in the 50's, 60's and 70's. Fros, dreds, and naps had been popularized wayyyyy before Lauryn Hill. The 90's promoted black self worth and beauty far before Lauryn. Have you forgotten about A Tribe Called Quest. Afrikaa Bombata (I always spell their name wrong but folks should know what I mean), Arrested Development, etc. The list goes on. Agreed, but while she's running around like a wack job, I don't believe anyone but a few of us will know this. Already the general consensus is that Lauryn is nuts. And she isn't working to change that. |
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Post by Guest21 on Feb 4, 2007 5:28:35 GMT 1
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Post by Guest21 on Feb 4, 2007 5:35:09 GMT 1
Sidenote: Somebody is not happy. They removed a lot her videos from youtube today.
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Post by Philo on Feb 4, 2007 7:14:58 GMT 1
I dont think that's Lauryn Hill on the cover.
But if you say so. We'll see how things play out. Until then the general consensus of everyone except the people on a few message boards is that there is something not right....including the people who are actually in her life.
So we'll see.
Anyway...
I'm going to try and get this recorded into a internet file and get it uploaded for you guys.
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Post by fugees-online on Feb 4, 2007 12:05:46 GMT 1
Sidenote: Somebody is not happy. They removed a lot her videos from youtube today. damn, I just read yesterday, that YouTube has some serious problems with VICACOM (MZV, Vh1 etc.) because VIACOM demands to take down thousands of videos because of copyright issues. bacically every video / interview that was recorded off MTV got removed! From the videos I uploaded ca. 50% got rejected and are offline! what a shame: most of the videos are GONE! check for youself: www.fugees-online.de/media |
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